Kar nekaj je že pisalo na tem forumu o vodenju poslovnih knjig in listin v Excelu. Nekako so si vsi edini, da je tudi poslovne knjige kot so npr. Knjiga prihodkov in odhodkov možno voditi v Excelu, če le ta vsebuje vse podatke kot tiskana verzija, pri čemer pisne ročne verzije ni potrebno voditi (da bi npr. Iz Excela ročno prepisovali v tiskano verzijo – kar bi bilo seveda nesmiselno).Po drugi strani pa knjigovodski standard zahteva, da se pri računalniškem vodenju poslovnih knjig (vsaj uradno) vpisi za nazaj ne smejo (program tega ne sme omogočati) spreminjati, kar je pri Excelu vsekakor mogoče. Seveda je verjetno v principu možno spreminjati tudi tiskano verzijo tako, da to ni opazno in gre tu predvsem za odgovornost glede prikazanih podatkov.Ker bi tudi sam rad to vodil v Excelu, zato tu sprašujem, katere od teh knjig in listin (in na kak način) je možno voditi v Excelu (enostavno knjigovodstvo):- knjiga prihodkov in odhodkov- knjiga terjatev in obveznosti- register osnovnih sredstev- evidenca nabave in porabe materiala- evidenca pretokov med gospodinjstvom in podjetjem- računZanimajo me tudi izkušnje tistih, ki knjige vidite v Excelu.

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Ali ste z inšpekcijo že imeli kakšne težave glede tega?Če ima kdo katerega od teh obrazcev že pripravljenega, bi prosil da mi ga pošlje oziroma objavi na teh spletnih straneh (vem, da je nekaj obrazcev tu že na voljo).Hvala za odgovore. Jaz bi vam svetoval, da si raje nabavite računovodski program, kjer imate vse evidence narejene, da se jih vi sploh ne zavedate kdaj. Stvar bo hitrejša, preglednejša, enostvnejša. Imate tudi povezavo z bančnimi asistenti (prenos podatkov plačil).

Ko dokument (na primer račun) vnesete, vam ob vnosu v knjigo odhodkov vnese še v knjigo DDV. Enostavno bo tudi vodenje po poslovnih partnerjih, artiklih.

Program omogoča izdelavo raznih obračunov.Sicer se, kolikor se jaz na Excel spoznam, to res da voditi, le izdelava tebel in raznoraznih makrojev, povezav vam bo vzela kar nekaj truda. Odvisno, koliko zahtevno ste si stvar zastavili.Kje pa piše, da se podatkov v računovodskih programih ne da popravljat za nazaj? Elektrik, Druker, Pamps, hvala za nasvete.Tudi sam razmišljam, da bi kasneje nabavil program.

Za 5 računov na mesec bi pa že skoraj premislil, ali se mi splača nabaviti program. Za začetek cca 280.000, vsako naslednje leta nadgradnja cca 45.000 (zneski so na pamet in jih nisem preveril, so pa tam nekje). Razen, če hočete res voditi sami, a vam svetujem, da vam vsaj pri nastavitvah oziroma zagonu programa pomaga izkušen računovodja in v primeru, v kolikor niste ravno vešč na področju računovodstva, vam priporočam, da poskrbite za manjšo pomoč, da vas nekdo kontrolira.Popravki so res mogoči, a z njimi ne posegam v davčne obračune, pač pa le vsebinske, kot so razni datumi, ki ne vplivajo na le-te, ozioma razni popravki knjiženj za nazaj.

Kot na primer, zelo praktično, da otvoritveno temeljnico knjižim in popravimlahko kasneje, vmes pa ujamem manjko tekočih knjiženj zaradi izdelave zaključnega računa. SRS 39.18.Knjižbe v poslovnih knjigah morajo temeljiti na verodostojnih knjigovodskih listinah.

Pamps, poznam ta standard. Vendar sem včasih pragmatičen in zakaj ne bi izkoristil možnosti programa, če se to da. Ta možnost je zelo koristna, ko obračunam plače za nazaj v primeru, da niso bile vse izplačane. Stornirat moram temeljnico za določen mesec, se malo poigrat z datumi obračuna plač da program izplača le določene plače, nato pa da napravi kumulativne obrazce. Ko temeljnico ponovno vnesem v glavno knjigo, vse dogodke 'preštevilči' tako, kot je bilo prej.

Ravno zaradi te možnosti raje popravljam skladno s omenjenim SRS in avtomatskim temeljnicam ne dodaja in odvzemam nič, če to ni potrebno zaradi uskladitev temeljnice. Otvoritev daje avtomatsko na prvo mesto, ne glede kdaj jo poknjižiš.

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J U G O S L A V I N S T I T U T E OF E C O N O M I C R E S E A R C HHapoflHa 6n6nnoT6Ka Cp6nje534592.WORKERS MANAGEMENT IN YUGOSLAVIA: A COMMENTB. Horvat and V. RaikovidR E P R I N T tfo 5FROM THE JOURNAL OF PO LITICAL ECONOMY APRIL 1959E d i t o r Borislav SamiitWORKERS MANAGEMENT IN YUGOSLAVIA: A COMMENTBELANKO HOEVAT AND VLADO RASCOVIC Manchester, England 'The purpose of this comment is to clarify some points raised by Benjamin Ward in his article, Workers Management in Yugoslavia,1 and to correct and supplement the factual basis of Wards article, primarily on the basis of firsthand information and personal participation in the events he discusses.

Wards article covers the period ending with 1955; to provide additional information, we shall comment on a few events since 1955 and shall attempt a brief extrapolation of the trend of development as viewed by participants in the system.IWard reached the following conclusions:It would seem that, under the procedures of fhe, original election law, conditions were not Such as to provide any real choice at the election. A secret ballot was provided, but the election was simply a matter of voting for or against a single list of candidates p. 375.I t would seem.

Tha t the election itself is of relatively little significance and tha t the basic decision as to the composition of the workers councils is made through the nomination procedure p. 376.The general picture of the workers as a whole under the new system does not seem to.be that of a group tha t was really in control of its management organizations p. 377,These conclusions are illustrated by selected facts, extracted largely from the daily and weekly press, a procedure that permits Ward to say: The evidence that has been cited points to the conclusion that, in general, Yugoslav workers are not in a position to control the policies of their firms either through the election procedures or through the agency of workers councils (p. 379).1 Journal Political Economy, LXV (October, 19S7), 373-86. 'There is some evidence of independent action, but it is not strong enough to permit the assertion that these bodies have acquired. A large degree of initiative within the firm. To some extent actions reportedly taken by the workers councils may simply represent the sort of rubber-stamp function exercised by parliamentary bodies in most Communist countries (p.

There is little or nothing positive in the system; and the article ends' with the conclusion that the vast majority of workers play little or no role in the decision-making process (p. However, if the workers do not control the factories, what sense does it make to turn the whole economic organization upside-down to make them behave as if they did? Would it not be much easier to copy an already established system, say, the American or the Soviet one? Unfortunately, Ward does not ask himself this obvious question, and so we are left wondering about the rationale for the phenomenon he describes.In the same concluding sentence Ward writes: It would seem that important decisions in Yugoslav industry continue to be made at the level of the finn. By whom are decisions made? By managing bodies and technical and administrative experts.

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The former are elected by workers, the latter, including (with some qualifications) the general manager, are appointed by the former. T o escape the contradiction, Ward tries to show that managing bodieswoikers councils and boards of managementare not really elected by the workers. But this is at variance with the facts. It was the intention of the original law and of all later amendments to enable the workers to manage their factories, workers meaning in this context not a particular privileged group but all workers. Therefore, we have the referendum and the assembly of the working collective194WORKERS MANAGEMENT IN YUGOSLAVIA 195as the highest authority in the firm. I t was the intention of the law to speed up the process by which workers get acquainted with business management through their active participation in it. Ward himself quotes the high turnover figure for members of workers councils together with the fact that about 15 per cent of eligible employed persons were serving on workers councils at any given time (p.

So far more than one-third of the total number of workers have passed through councils.2 In a few years it will be a majority of thefn. This state of affairs compares more than favorably with that of a conventional political democracy or with the number of trade-union leaders, their election, and their turnover in other countries.Let us also consider, a few potential qualifications. The small management board, which is elected indirectly /th a t is, through the council, and which is concerned with the day-to-day affairs, may tend to perpetuate itself by converting its members into a sort of managerial class. This is rendered impossible by the provisions that the members of the management board may be elected only twice in succession and that the period of office is only one year. Next, technical and administrative experts may try to influence less-educated workers to vote for them, constituting themselves as another sort of a managerial class. This is rendered impossible by the provision that at least three- quarters of both managing bodies must consist of workers. The next difficulty is that the short period of office prevents council members from getting thoroughly acquainted with the affairs of the firm.

This difficulty cannot be overcome by legal prescriptions. Faced with the alternatives of educating many workers to a lesser degree or few workers to a greater degree, legislators have wisely chosen the first alternative at the start. But the situation has already changed, and the demand for an extension of the period of office was one of the most fre. By 1957, over 600,000 workers had participated in management bodies (see A. Deleon and Lj. Mija- jtoyie eds., Congress of Workers Councils of Yugo- 'slavio Beograd, 1957, p.

14).quent demands voiced at last years Congress of Workers councils. Thus the steps taken appear to be sensible and their explanation obvious.A brief description of how the elections are conducted may also be helpful. The organization of elections is placed within the sphere of competence of the trade unions, which, according to Ward, are one of the watchdog agencies of the state (p.

Trade unions have been intrusted with this job simply because somebody has to dc it, and, to do it in the most democratic way, the. Organizers must be acquainted with the problem but must not be eligible for election themselves. Thus council members cannot organize the elections, while the members of the Trade Union Factory Committee cannot be elected. Next, the elections are an internal affair of every firm, and the firms Trade Union Committee is in this respect completely autonomous. Further, this committee itself is elected by the workers of the firm with no interference from outside, has no paid officials, and consists of the workers working in the firm. Finally, the committee usually nominates candidates in the following way (our direct information applies to 1952). All departments and shops of the firm are informal that on a certain date the election will take place, and workers are invited to propose candidates.

In order to secure fair representation, every productive unit usually nominates its own candidates; that is, ten, twenty, or a hundred people in a. department or a shop. nominate among, themselves one or more of their number as candidates.

The number of candidates is usually significantly greater thansay, twicethe number of vacancies, and every shop is therefore vitally interested in proposing the candidates most' acceptable to the rest of the firmthe people with the greatest chance to be elected. I t lnay be noted that this, desire for feir representation acts- also as a factor limiting the number of candidates to be put on the list.

The Trade Union Committee combines all these proposals in a single list for the firm. Now-, abuses are, of course, possible and do occur.196 BRANKO HQRVAT AND VLADO RASCOVICTherefore, there are safeguards against them. If for some reason one or more groups in the firm feel that the procedure has not been an absolutely correct one, they may add their own separate list or lists. And the voting itself i. done forthe individual candid dates regardless of the list to which they belong. The legality of the procedure is' supervised by courts.

And any member of a managing body may be recalled at any time by the electors.3 Thus Wards statistical conclusion that in at most 11 per cent of the elections there was some choice of candidates (p. 376) is very unfortunate, since it is based solely on the choice among lists.Another misunderstanding of the role of trade unions is revealed by Wards paper: These labor norms had been dropped by most workers councils, so that the fact that the unions played a major role in their reintroduction is suggestive of the direction of their primary loyalties (p. In fact, the real situation was a reverse one: the state was interested in dropping the norms, and the workers were interested in introducing them, and eventually the state yielded to th pressure of the workers. We have no space to elaborate the details of this admittedly unusual situation, but essentially it may be explained as follows. The taxation system was inadequate and was based on the excess of wages over the base of the labor norms. Workers councils, being autonomous, could raise the labor norms and so lower the base of taxes on their own wages, with the obvious consequences f.